Outside response to the Debate

A friend who read through the debate responded:

“I would suggest a simpler test; read the text of their holy scripture, and see if it advocates and/or sanctions said violence. If it does, the religion is violent. If its holy scriptures are replete with violent act after violent act, the religion is violent.”

–This is an Appeal to Authority Fallacy where he claims himself as the authority, how pretentious. A non-Christian, even one who once was a Christian, is not an authority on reading the Scriptures on behalf of the Church. A non-Christian CANNOT tell the Church what its Scriptures say and mean. If one would cite a systematics text then perhaps he would be claiming a good authority. Good luck finding one church body whose catechisms endorse or encourage such violence.

–The mere fact that both Christians and Jews claim the Hebrew Testament is proof that one outside of the religion cannot claim authority on the document. Christians look at the Hebrew Testament and see Jesus of Nazareth as the fulfillment. Jews do not. Someone from outside the Church or outside Judaism is incapable of looking at the book and telling us what it says when there are two paramount religions that fastidiously disagree on what it says. This may be accused of the Inflation of Conflict Fallacy, but let it be seen that I am not arguing that because Christians and Jews differ on the Hebrew Testament that the truth of it cannot be known (that would be Inflation of Conflict), I am merely illustrating that someone from outside the religion is an inadequate authority in claiming what the Scriptural doctrine is.

“…which is more moral: helping people purely out of concern for their suffering, or helping them because you think the creator of the universe will reward you for it?”
– or in my own words, ‘because he commands you to do so?’

–The two are not mutually exclusive, plain and simple. Not to mention he forgot the option: helping people in their sufferings and trials because Jesus Christ has helped you in your sufferings and trials… that’s not because God commands us to, it’s showing the same love to others that we have been shown.

“Again, I refer you to the above statements. Christians can use the very scripture their religion is based on to justify the evils they do.”

–I can justify that the Sun revolves around the Earth by standing outside & saying “See! The Sun is moving & I am not.” That doesn’t make it true or valid. This is the case with the Crusades, the Inquisition, the KKK & others who may claim Scriptural support for their prejudice, violence, & hatred. Justifying claims does not necessitate their truth or validity.

–Eisegesis is not Exegesis. & interestingly enough if one would actually read through some of the historical mandates for these violent acts, he would find a surprising LACK of Scriptural references at all!

–Crusades- Perhaps your adversary has not read the five versions of Pope Urban II’s sermon calling for the 1095 Crusade. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/urban2-5vers.html Let him who is open to truth and capable of thinking and discerning read for himself the words that initiated the Crusades. Fulcher of Charters and Robert the Monk record only Scripture references superfluous to the actual command to march on Jerusalem (in defense of sacred sites). The Gesta Version indicates that there may have been a severe misunderstanding of what it means to take up one’s cross and follow Christ. NONE, Not ONE of the violent sections of Scripture is used to support the 1095 Crusade. Nor are any of the Scriptural references cited used in their proper context and meaning.

–Inquisition- Likewise, perhaps your adversary should read the Ad extirpanda from Pope Innocent IV which instituted the Medieval Inquistion (http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~draker/history/Ad_Extirpanda.html). The Spanish Inquisition was driven by the king and queen with the approval of Pope Sixtus IV, but let there be no mistaking it, it operated under royal authority! Similarly the Portuguese Inquisition came at the request of the King.

KKK- Clearly they did not understand the grace of God was first for the Jew then for the Gentile (and all the World) as it says in the Gospels, Acts, and Paul’s epistles.

I hesitate to call your opponent’s claims Straw Man since they are quite clearly spoken from nothing other than ignorance. How disappointing and frustrating.